Do you use newsletter software (e.g. MailChimp) and are you interested in PRIVACY?
Hi Indie Hackers,
We're two Indie Hackers thinking about our next project!
What we're thinking about is privacy friendly newsletter software. Why? Because by default, newsletters are pretty privacy intrusive. They keep track of whether you open it, whether you click on links, and all sorts of monitoring and analytics. We think it should be possible to send out newsletters without all the intrusion, monitoring and analytics.
We're interested in hearing if you guys have a newsletter, which software you use, and what the killer features are that you rely on. And perhaps, if you're up for it, if we could have a chat with you.
We'd be super happy with some early feedback before we get stuck in!
Nick
Hi Nick, my project is PostAgent https://postagent.io and I provide mail exchange services that could power your newsletter backend (think Mailgun or Sendgrid as a similar product). We are pre-launch but pretty close to being done. We're looking for testers and early customers. You can contact me privately using the webchat on that website :)
We would be happy to offer you a large free tier to send your newsletters.
Hi,
Thanks for the offer, I'll certainly have a look at Post Agent! And good luck on growing it.
If you are looking for surveys, polls & forms. I can help with my product https://blocksurvey.io. Happy to jump on a call to discuss further.
So the advantage here for you is to let consumers know how they are being monitored and how your platform doesn't, hence when subscribing for a newsletter they'll register only to ones powered by your platform. Startups and indie Hackers will be left blind. We need that data, please
Well, I'm not sure what a solution will look like yet, but I think there are ways to improve privacy related to newsletters, either by limiting tracking and analytics, or providing receivers of newsletters with more insight and power to set what they think is right for them.
Yes this will impact monitoring for marketing purposes, and it wouldn't be a product for EVERY newsletter sender/marketer, but I think lots of people could be interested in it.
i've been using
mailchimpand i don't love or hate it. probably closer to the latter. but, just slightly.Just one note, creating an e-mail service that doesn't send e-mails into spam inboxes is really hard. If you don't know what kind of e-mails your customers are sending and how many are marked as spam, you could have spammers using your platform and thus making most of the e-mails sent from your server reach spam inboxes, even the legitimate ones.
Yes I know it's hard, and that is a difficult point about making such software.
Hey @Nickk81, this is a great question and one we have asked ourselves many times! We began by using Mautic for ad-hoc emails because it was open source. However, it was a pretty bad user experience and when we started doing event based emails we had to find an alternative. We're now using Sendgrid. We share the same concerns that you have and we make sure we collect consent from users and make it obvious in our privacy policy which exact third parties we use. I wrote a post on the broader issue of searching for privacy alternative to the most common tools here:
https://medium.com/@richardjvibert/how-to-build-a-privacy-first-startup-9e8f944d7d26
Thanks for the feedback. Your post is very informative, and Metomic looks great! You seem to be doing well (based on job openings). Will take a closer look soon!
I'd be interested.
Mostly I don't care who specifically reads my email. I want to be able to easily collect subscribers and email send out emails.
I think I'd still like to know overall percentages of opens and clicks, but it doesn't need to be tied to a specific user.
Hi Rosie,
Thanks for responding. Those are some good points that you raise. We have thought about whether a solution would need to have NO tracking at all, or whether it would be limited/aggregated and based on clear opt-in with clear choices. The overall opens & clicks would still mean monitoring of activity (just not attributing it to specific users), which is not ideal from a (maximum) privacy perspective.
Let me know if you're open for a chat (I'll send you a private message).
Thanks again!
Nick
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I also saw that Jason and DHH said, and that got me thinking about this initially.
I'm not sure you would 'lose', I think the market is big, and some would be better served with analytics, and some would be better served with more privacy focus.
Showing you care about privacy and your end users can increase trust, with that trust you can have a better relationship with your customer.
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When I heard about hey.com my initial thought was that these very smart guys are very far removed from the rush of sending their first email campaign for their consulting business or startup. I will never forget the graphic of the chimp arm hovering over the send button with the drip of sweat. I thought it perfectly captured the moment. Those email campaigns really helped me get my start, and the information provided not only encouraged me to go on, it helped me to learn how to improve my marketing skills.
Absolutely there are people that don't want to be tracked, and there are solutions for this that surely they already know about or could easily google is they were inclined to do something about it.
I also care about privacy, but if I signed up for an email list I'm not bothered that they can see I opened it, or when, or from where. I know that exists and why. What does bother me is this; when people add me to a list, without my consent, because they found my email somewhere, or my info is sold or shared from a list I did sign up for, or a bait-and-switch scenario where I sign up for one thing, but didn't consent to all the other things they're now sending me.
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I agree. I think the analytics are critical to most email marketers, at least the ones that care about producing marketing results.
The main challenge here is that privacy is a feature that some consumers care about, but you're selling to email marketers who have more pressing business concerns.
I think your comment is spot on. So I have been thinking about other ways of measuring 'engagement', which is the end goal of the newsletter.
And by the way, I have always thought that open rates are a pretty crude measurement of engagement. The amount of times I open a marketing Email, or newsletter for a second, only to move on.... And this gets measured as an 'open'.
I agree that opens are imperfect, but then that why it's helpful to see the total number of clicks. Then you can follow the clicks to see further engagement on a website.
The other reason why opens are valuable is if a user has not opened any emails from the last several campaigns, then I'd like to know so I can either send them a re-activation email or remove them from my list. Most ESPs charge based on list size so I need to remove inactive members from time to time to keep my costs down.
My view on privacy is that I object to analytics and tracking that can be tied back to individuals and personal information, but I'm ok with aggregated user analytics that don't tie back to individuals. Other may have stronger or weaker opinions on privacy.